Fresh Views

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From time to time I participate in a few selected forums. What follows is a question posted by one of the forum members and the replies (in as close of an order as I could arrange them). I obtained permission from those who did the posting and replying to cross-post this here on my web page. I know this is unusual, and it’s LONG, but there were some opinions and viewpoints brought out here that are fresh (at least to me) and I thought they would be interesting to share with the visitors to my site. All posts were made on January 15^th and 16^th, 2004.

My thanks to those in the forum for their permission to re-print these documents.

Recently, my wife and I were discussing crossdressing in general, and she hit me with a question that I'm just not sure how to answer...

First of all, I have always believed that my crossdressing was limited to the clothes. By that I mean I am not gay, I am ok with being a genetic male, and that I just like to dress as a woman when I can. I still believe this to be true.

I have often told my wife that women are lucky that they can wear feminine or masculine clothes when-ever they want, without any issues. Women can wear traditionally male clothes, and no one will look twice. But if a man wears a skirt... well, you all know the story.

Her reply left me a little speechless. She said it isn't just about the clothes, that there is a lot more to it. If she wears a pair of jeans and one of my sweatshirts, she doesn't feel the need to "stuff" her crotch area to give the appearance of male genetalia. She doesn't tightly wrap her chest area to restrict and reduce her breast from showing. She doesn't stop wearing make-up either. She just wears the clothes.

She said if I just wore a skirt, then it would be the same type thing. But I don't just wear a skirt. I shave my body hair, minimize my budge, and create the appearance of breasts. I wear all the lingerie, do my make-up, wear a wig, add nails, carry a purse, and generally become a different person, etc., etc.

Nothing she said is false, it is more than just the clothes. But once again, I still can say I am not gay, nor do I have a problem with being a genetic male. For the first time in 30+ years, I am confused.

I like to dress in women's clothes. That is the most basic part of being a crossdresser, but how do I explain her other points? I'm sure she thinks I really want to be a woman. I can't come up with a reply that truly explains the situation as it is. Do I really want to be a woman??? I don't think so, but there has to be some sort of additional explanation, doesn't there?

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I could use some of my sisters insight here. I should add that my wife is truly a wonderful and accepting woman, that is really only trying to help me understand myself.

I believe you may be looking for a complex answer when a simple one is more correct. What's happening here is the old 'apples can't be compared to oranges' scenario You shave your legs but she does too. You like your clothes to look good on you and she does too. She can look good in most guy's clothes without 'stuffing' the pants or 'binding' her breasts, but a bulge in a skirt or women's pants doesn't look right, nor does the looseness of missing breasts under most women's tops. What you both are doing is trying to look you're personal best within the clothing choices you make She already looks like a woman and needs no help to appear to be a woman; you desire to look like a woman and need a bit of help just like the rest of us who 'go all the way' with our dressing She's seeing clothes as a being a separate thing, while you're seeing clothes as part of the overall appearance; they're really two different things!

She would no more be seen with hairy legs and armpits showing, no make-up at all, and looking like a slob than you would So you see, in your case it's not just the clothes that you want to wear, it's the overall appearance that you seek and clothes are just a part of it That still doesn't change the person who is wearing them; you're always going to be whoever you are inside and your choice of appearance cannot change that

Your wife's question is the one which puzzles most non-crossdressers and makes it extremely difficult for us to gain acceptance. What we do is not the same thing as most women do when they wear male type clothing, nor would we be accepted in the same way that women are if we simply chose to wear skirts or other items without changing our male appearance.

To answer the second part first, the concept of male supremacy is deeply rooted in our culture. Such things as the adoption of the man's name upon marriage and the priority of the male offspring before the female in deterring the right to the throne in a monarchy are the visible indications of this. Any display of femininity or womanliness by a man is considered to be a degradation of his manhood and status. Meanwhile, a display of manliness by a woman, if not overdone, is looked upon as an elevation of her status, an expression of her independence, and a sign of her equality with men.

But the real confusion over crossdressing stems from the fact that we don't simply wear women's clothing, even if our culture no longer considers it to be demeaning. Even those of us who have no desire to become women, experience no confusion as to our own male gender or even wish to spend prolonged periods of time living as a woman, still attempt to emulate the female being while enjoying our crossdressing. People may not understand the motivations of a transsexual, but many can now accept that the condition can and does exist. Similarly, people may not understand how a person can experience sexual arousal through wearing opposite sex clothing, but are willing to say "whatever turns you on". But the crossdresser who says he has no desire to be a woman, enjoys his manhood and derives no sexual pleasure from crossdressing is a total enigma, even to himself. His actions are considered freaky and the imitation of female breasts, themselves a symbol of erotic desires and passions, make his activities seem perverse to the confused observer.

Most crossdressers who fit the above description are heterosexual and have a deep appreciation and admiration of beauty in all forms, but particularly that of the human female. Like the painter, sculptor, writer, poet or composer who creates his own impression of the beauty he observes in life, often that of the female form, the crossdresser is also somewhat of an artist. His own body and mind are his palette, while the clothing and makeup are his paint and brush. His medium, in many ways, is similar to that of the actor. Like the young boy who sees his favorite action hero on the big screen, or the sports buff who watches his favorite player perform, the crossdresser imagines himself as the object of his admiration. The boy will play cowboy, cops and robbers or Superman with his pals, the sports buff will emulate the style and stance of his favorite ballplayer during his pickup games with his buddies, and the crossdresser will fulfill his fantasies to the best of his abilities.

The best you can tell your wife is that it is like explaining the unexplainable or describing the indescribable. It must be felt to be understood. We don't question all the turmoil within the artist who paints a portrait of a beautiful woman, we simply enjoy and appreciate the beauty of his work. In a similar vein, we should stop attempting to explain the wonders of crossdressing, erase all the negativity concerning it from our thoughts and simply enjoy as both participant and observer. Crossdressing provides its own explanation.

I've been pondering how to respond to this question and could not find the right words to express myself. You have said what I was thinking more eloquently than I ever could. The truth for me is that like acting, it is expressing myself through another character. Like an actor, it is best expressed while in costume. Like actors, I am still myself and love being myself, my masculine heterosexual self. Like an actor that creates a character, my expression of a feminine side is temporary, but fulfills a desire to create that is within me. I no more want to be a female than an actor wants to be the character he or she is portraying. I recently saw the production of a Shakespeare play that featured an all male cast. Many played female characters to the great admiration of the entire audience. No one thought this strange. I guess if dressed on stage and performed no one would care. Much like Eddie Izzard, the TV comedian.

My wife and I discussed the same question some years ago. I can only give a short reply now due to time pressures.

The really short answer to this is "its a guy thing" - not one you can explain to a woman.

One point is how we present. She wears all men’s clothing but still presents as a woman. She makes a fashion choice but does not wish to present as a man - short hair, flat chest, beard etc. This has nothing to do with taste in clothes, fashion sense, 'neatness' or anything like that. Current fashions allow this in our society, but not in others.

I can wear only women's clothes, such as slacks, top, underfashions, and still present as a male. I find this pleasing, but I often question if this is really crossdressing. I will leave that debate for another time.

Wearing the same clothes, with breast forms, wig and makeup, I could (but it is highly improbable) present as a woman. Personally, I have no desire to do this, but I respect that many of you do. This would have us dressing consistently with a large part of the female population, most of the time.

The next step is the 'full Monty' - selecting the 'female only' clothing and a full female presentation. There is no question that this is an entirely different experience, but I can not explain why. Perhaps it is because it removes us completely from our usual world.

I think this is a key difference that needs some further exploration. Lets put society's expectations aside for a minute, and ask - if it were acceptable to go out as a male in a dress, would you do it? I think most of us would say no.

So, to follow the points of an earlier response, we are acting as an artist, redefining ourselves into an image of that which we are not. I think this might explain the tendency to go overboard in femininity sometimes.

I think wives have some difficulty with the business of us redefining ourselves, and this may be where some of the opposition comes from. The 'redefined' persona is not the one she married.

My wife brought up a related point. She said "I think you may be in love with your image of yourself, and you don't need me". I think there is some truth to that, but I want to bring up another differences between the sexes.

I have a theory that some people can be classified as 'and' people, whereas others are classified as 'or' people.

To oversimplify, 'and' people are generally men, and they would say "I love you AND I love image of me crossdressed"

The others, 'or' people are generally women, and they would say "no, there is room for only one love. You love me OR you love the image of yourself.

If you and your spouse are in different camps on this matter, it very hard to see the world through the other's eyes.

So the wife may be saying "I want to be a woman all the time regardless of what I wear; I think you should either want to be a man all the time OR be a woman all the time.

And the crossdressing husband is saying "I want to continue being a man AND I want to be or be like a woman some of the time. This desire may be purely sexual or it may have no sexual aspect."

I think we maybe entering into an 'unexplainable' area of the human experience. There are so many things like that - for example there is no logic to the human attraction for each other, and there is no logic to love.

How ironic! You are so right when you say "it's a guy thing", despite the fact we say we are expressing our inner femininity. Also, as you said, "this is a short response?" I was having difficulty condensing my thoughts into a short reply, and found myself wanting to write a book on the subject.

Some psychologists say that crossdressers create an image of woman that they then fall in love with which may or may not be a replacement for an actual male/female relationship. I don't think that this is necessarily the case with most crossdressers. I think the admiration is of our own artistic endeavors, in much the same way we would admire any other of our creations, artistic or otherwise. The fact that we like to admire women in the mall, the playboy centerfold, an antique automobile, a great painting etc. does not mean that we are "in love" with them or it in the sense of romantic or sexual desires.

A man does not feel threatened when his wife wears men's clothing, but a women can sometimes feel threatened if her husband wear's women's garb. It is a basic difference in the mentality of the male and female. A man's greatest fear is loss of his power, control and authority while a woman's greatest fear is loss of her emotional support. Perhaps this explains why some men enjoy domination and feminization as well as crossdressing (the risk taking excitement of facing up to a major fear in our imaginary play world), while many women enjoy romance novels, living vicariously with the tear-jerking disappointments and breakups before finally returning to the safety of a newfound relationship.

Jessica (or should I credit his/her wife) has initiated a great topic for discussion on a crossdressing forum.

You said it best. You "like to look like a woman." So it's not just the clothes for you. It's the total appearance.

This is indeed different from what most women do when they wear men's jeans, sweatshirts, and so on. They are not trying to look like men--they're simply wearing men's clothes.

But your wife is asking you a deeper question. "Why?" Why do you like to look like a woman some of the time, or as you put it, "when [you] can."

For some of us, it's erotic. We find looking at ourselves dressed to be sexually stimulating. We function better in the bedroom when we are dressed, sometimes to the consternation (or even disgust) of our partner.

For some of us, it's jealously of the perceived privileges of being a woman. We envy the beauty, the grace, the respect, the sensuality, whatever.

For some of us, it's partial gender dysphoria. We may feel slightly ill-at-ease with some aspects of being a man. Other times, we may feel totally comfortable with it. The difference could be the situation, the people, or our own mood. If we had total dysphoria, we'd probably want to go transsexual. But with partial dysphoria, crossdressing is a compromise that leaves us in control--"the best of both worlds."

Some of us may be closeted transsexuals, who secretly desire to change, but don't want to hurt our loved ones or lose the security we have built up over a lifetime--family, job, social standing, etc.

It may be a combination of more than one factor. It can, in fact, get pretty complicated. For instance, if one person combines full dysphoria and eroticism, they're left with a dilemma: don't have the operation and feel miserable, or have the operation and lose the ability to enjoy the sexual thrill (except as a memory lived through others).

(As for me, I'll answer yes to the first three motivations--eroticism, envy, and partial dysphoria. And no to the fourth--there are many aspects of being male I enjoy. So for me, crossdressing full time (without hormones) fits me like a glove and I love it!)

P.S. I didn't understand my own motivations for most of my life. Crossdressing in the closet (which I did from childhood) partially satisfied the erotic aspect of crossdressing. But it only tantalized the envy (probably encouraged it, in fact) and did nothing for the dysphoria. I had no perceived desire to go out in public dressed. When I finally did it, it was just because soooo many people raved about it that I thought I ought to try it. And I loved it! Suddenly, the erotic side seemed acceptable--it no longer seemed shameful and perverted. The envy felt satisfied--I no longer envied women, I joined them, at least when I wanted to. And the feelings of dysphoria began to evaporate as I gained greater and greater acceptance as a woman. (The dysphoria returns if I have to spend too much time in male mode.) I understood my motivations better the more transgender experiences I had.

For a while, I was thinking I might go transsexual. I read about hormones and started electrolysis (didn't get very far).

And a funny thing happened. The "itch" was gone. The desire to go further (and further and further) in a transgendered direction disappeared. I reached my point of balance between my male and female sides. This is an experience many crossdressers have written about, though for most of us, it happens much sooner than it did for me. In place of the itch was a deep calm, and a desire to move my attention on to other aspects of my life. I looked at life with new eyes, as the old preoccupation with crossdressing was gone.

You might say I don't really "crossdress" anymore; I just get dressed every morning. I only dress sexy for sex. When my wife and I have a "date" in the bedroom, I'll put on sexy things. (Yes, I'm deliriously fortunate--she likes that! And yes, she usually dresses sexy too. We're in heaven!!) The rest of the time, I'm more concerned with looking well-groomed and appropriately dressed, like the transgendered professional I am.

You have introduced a concept that I have not seen mentioned on the forum before, i.e. partial gender dysphoria. I am not sure what the experts would classify as "dysphoria", but I am quite sure there is a considerable amount of "partial" dysphoria in the crossdressing community.

I never thought of myself as possessing this condition, even though there have been "male" situations in my life with which I was not terribly comfortable. I hated gym classes as a young preteen despite the fact that I love some sports such as baseball, swimming and cycling, because of the extreme macho posturing and competitiveness of the instructors and some students. But rather than invoking thoughts of wishing I was female to escape this, these antics simply did not strike me as fitting my definition of "masculine" as imparted to me by the examples of my own father and grandfathers. I also enjoy the company of women more than men, generally, not because I think of myself as one of them, or wish that I was, but because I enjoy their ability to express their emotions, thoughts and feelings. Men tend to say and do what they think is expected of themselves and are thus less genuine.

In short, I feel that I live my life in accordance with my own concepts of manliness, and am intrigued by some aspects of womanliness which I enjoy experiencing occasionally by means of crossdressing as a temporary diversion. Whether this would qualify as "dysphoria" is debatable.

I would enjoy reading some further thoughts in the forum on the meaning of the term, if you or anyone else has some more knowledge or thoughts on the matter.

Although it's nominally about the clothes in my case, there is admittedly another very important aspect to my crossdressing.

I wish to feel what a woman feels when she is dressed in feminine clothing. And not only feel it but also enjoy the sensuality of the whole experience, including the experience of (however clumsily) 'slipping into the skin' of a woman. Wearing the clothes is the gateway to that realization.

It was me I'd tell these aspects of crossdressing to your wife, if of course you share them.

Your wife makes a good point, particularly, that “ ... it isn't just about the clothes ... there is a lot more to it. If she wears a pair of jeans and one of my sweatshirts, she doesn't feel the need to ‘stuff’ her crotch area to give the appearance of male genitalia. She doesn't tightly wrap her chest area to restrict and reduce her breasts from showing. She doesn't stop wearing make-up either. She just wears the clothes.”

For many purposes, men’s clothing is more practical than women’s clothing. Jeans and a sweatshirt are more durable than most women’s garments, and athletic shoes are kinder to the feet than are high heels. Also, there are times when women are more interested in going about their business, not looking for sexual attention. In short, women wear men’s clothes for lots of good reasons that have nothing to do with trying to feel more masculine.

Part of our motivation, on the other hand, is to feel more feminine. That entails more than clothing — your wife is absolutely correct. Feminine clothing is a good start, but figure enhancement, makeup, and a wig contribute to our objective of feeling more feminine.

When they were building the Alaska pipeline, many of the workers reputedly wore pantyhose as an additional layer of clothing to protect them against frostbite. That would be more comparable (than MtF crossdressing) to what many women are doing when they wear men’s clothing — it has some practical significance.

This is a great topic. Your wife points out that when she wears "masculine" clothes its for practical reasons, not to try to feel more masculine. It is a fair point. But, there are women who do wear "masculine" clothes to feel more masculine. They do bind their chests, stuff their crotches, etc. There a lot of men (most really) who would never feel the need or desire to where "feminine" clothing either.

In some respects, she will never understand. That doesn't mean you want to be a woman at all. It doesn't mean that there aren't women who like to "gender bend" as well but are perfectly happy being female. It's not part of her personality, while it is part of yours.

I am sure there are many more personality differences between you and your wife and I bet she has an easier time with differences because they are common to many relationships. For example, my SO is an excessive worrier where I am much more able to cope with stress. I simply cannot understand her level of anxiety sometime. I never will because I don't experience and internalize stress the way she does. But I don't fault her for it or love her any less. I try to understand and help her.

I am not putting down your wife at all. She asks probably the best question I have ever heard regarding cds. I really had to think about about why I crossdress and it is really hard to articulate. But she is an obviously intelligent woman and I think some of these responses might help her understand better.

These are excellent replies and comments! You've asked a question that goes to the heart of CD motivation.

Why we want to present as female is a mystery, but it's a given that a majority of us feel this to one degree or another.

The other thing about most of us is that we start out being attracted to women.

Given that we choose women for mates, we have definite opinions and feelings when it comes to how a woman should look. This gets confusing, and I'll try not to get lost here. We may not be sexually motivated to crossdress, but we all know what we like or don't like about the sexual partners we've chosen in our lives.

So it's not unusual that we would strive to present the kind of woman that we would be attracted to ourselves. This doesn't mean that we're attracted to our own image, although that can happen. It doesn't answer the question of why we want to do this in the first place.

But it's easy to see that if you like women to be smooth-legged, you're going to duplicate this. If you tend to choose women who have wide hips, you're probably going to pad your own hips.

It's a circular argument, because your wife can still say, "But why would you want to 'duplicate' what you're attracted to? Isn't the real thing enough?"

And here I break off from generalization. For me, it WASN'T enough to have a fantastic girlfriend, even though she was everything I'd ever wanted in a woman. Why some of us have to become more of what we're attracted to "out there" is hard to understand.

It doesn't sound like you're too extreme about this feeling. I can see why it would concern your wife, and why she questions just what the motivation is.

I get much enjoyment from presenting the best version of a woman that I can, because I know how much people of both genders like that appearance. It's because I'm attracted to women that I know what "works" and what doesn't work.

For those who aren't attracted to women, it's harder for me to understand, but I see that they have just as much investment for "getting it right." It's a strange but wonderful world we CDs end up exploring!

EXCELLENT question and some of the best answers I've ever seen! I'm especially impressed by Victoria's "AND / OR" theory and by Veronica's explanations and views too.

My own theory is that crossdressers are so much infatuated by women in general and view them as the objects of beauty that they really are, that we want to experience what it FEELS like to look that way. We don't want to BE women, but we DO want to (for lack of a better description) "experience beauty" in the same way we surmise that a pretty woman does.

Another thing is that I truly don't think that women have the same TYPE of appreciation for the way a male looks as a male does for the way a woman looks. I know that women regard a lot of men as handsome, sexy, appealing, etc, but they don't see a 'beauty' there that IS present in women. On the other hand, a man appreciates the beauty in a woman more than he does anything else, and this is even more true in crossdressers. There's just something really special about a beautiful woman that can't be duplicated in anything else and it's our appreciation of this and the desire to experience what it feels like that's one of the driving forces making us want to dress. Now it's obvious that a lot of us would never be able to pass as a woman in public. However, our mind's eye has a way of making us see what we WANT to see when we've made ourselves up and stand looking in the mirror. So it's not necessarily the actual image we see there, but one that's (as another reply so accurately put it) "of our own creation" that we are seeing. This was also very aptly referred to in another reply as an art form or sorts for a crossdresser.

Women's clothing still has a significant gender component to it; men's clothing simply no longer does. The very expression men's clothing is a throw-back to the time when it was actually taboo for women to wear publicly the clothing that men did; that time is an increasingly distant memory, society long since having grown oblivious to the matter. The term is a quaint relic. If a woman walked into where I am right now, dressed exactly as I am at the moment (boy-mode, except for the panties), I would still be more crossdressed than she, because, wearing effectively gender-neutral clothing, she wouldn't be crossdressed at all!

So, your wife is right when she indicates she's not crossdressing. Take comfort, though--her point about our attempts to pass is moot. If I'm in public wearing a dress then I can be smoking a stogie, sporting a flattop haircut, spouting sports statistics, and flaunting face and body hair that women would shave if they could even grow it; but I'm still crossdressed and still subject to society's strong disapproval for openly violating one of its existing gender-boundaries. If your wife suggests again that you wish to be a woman simply because you try to pass, ask her if she'd like you to go out in public as the proverbial "man in a dress".

Some DIFFERENT Views about Crossdressing